Hosts William Dettloff and Eric Raskin are joined by Queensbury-Rules.com founder Tim Starks for a super-sized episode answering such questions as: Is Andre Ward boring? Should Bernard Hopkins be muzzled? Who will win Hopkins-Pascal? Is Pacquiao-Marquez worth getting excited about? And are fights better in a phone booth or in an elevator?
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Great episode of Ring Theory. I liked the points made about Ward and the debate about Pacquiao - Marquez III. It was also nice to hear them go a somewhat different direction inviting a blogger as a guest. Good, good stuff. And I’m not just saying it because they answered my question — even though I thought both Bill and Eric made very valid points about an inherently-cautious Mayweather.
I really did like Jordan’s question though. I’ve often wondered if the three knockdown rule had been in effect for Pacquiao - Marquez I, hence forcing the fight to end in the first round rather than a controversial referee stoppage, how different things might have been. Really I think there two pretty clear scenarios.
I agree with Bill, in that the cream always rises to the top and even being stopped in the first round against Manny wouldn’t have derailed Marquez’s career for long. He’s just too damned good and entertaining to have been forgotten. And after, this is a guy whose reputation has survived the perplexing decision to go fight Chris John in Indonesia — which cost him a questionable decision loss, but hardly anything else. Who knows, maybe his vulnerability would have lured Erik Morales into a fight with him at that time, but regardless I think Marquez would have still eventually fought Barrera, Juarez, Casamayor, Diaz and Katsidis. Sure he may never have been considered Number 2 Pound for Pound, which means maybe he isn’t Mayweather’s hand picked opponent for a comeback, but then again, maybe he doesn’t go overseas to fight John either. Bottom-line, I think JMM would be in nearly the same spot had he lost.
The real difference would have been with Pacquiao. The only thing that somewhat helps stifle these over-zealous Pacman fans is the fact that a mere two points are the difference between and draw and a win, and being twice beaten by Marquez. With a first round TKO over the great Marquez, no one would be mentioning how much trouble Manny has with counterpunchers and probably a one-man Mt. Rushmore-like sculpture would surely have been completed somewhere in General Santos City (to which Dan Rafael would make a yearly pilgrimage to offer penitence for the welfare of his soul). Basically, Pacquiao would be regarded as invincible at this point and sadly, serious discussion about whether he outranks Pep, Ali or Robinson would be the main topic at hand in any boxing forum (as if it isn’t already). It’s amazing how something as simple as no three knockdown rule can make such a huge difference in a couple of fighter’s careers.
Great question Jordan. Great show Eric and Bill!
Gotta say I’m more with Timmy Starks on the trash-talking. Ali started it and did it with humor and a twinkle in his eye - even when he was saying the meanest of things. Fighters nowadays just sound like thugs talking shit before a street-fight - it’s crude, generally humorless and I could do without it. Hopkins is a great fighter and he’s always done things his way - doesn’t mean you have to like him.
Regarding Mayweather - I remember when he made the initial switch from his father to his uncle as trainer. If you remember Roger as a professional fighter, you’ll recall that he was much more offensive minded than his brother Floyd, Sr. In his initial fight with Roger in the corner he tried to adopt a more offensive-crowd pleasing style. The fight was against the boxer then known as Emmanuel Burton - later known as Augustus. If you YouTube that fight, you’ll see the most exciting brawl Mayweather ever fought. His nose got bloodied, he took and he gave. He won by late TKO - but did not like the taste of his own blood apparently. After that fight, he went back to fighting more like his Dad and not his trainer - Uncle Rog.